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	<title>Comments on: NINC Responds to Disturbing Publishing Development</title>
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	<description>The international organization of multi-published novelists</description>
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		<title>By: Eva Ulian</title>
		<link>http://www.ninc.com/blog/index.php/archives/ninc-responds-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-3454</link>
		<dc:creator>Eva Ulian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 11:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ninc.com/blog/?p=4213#comment-3454</guid>
		<description>Thank you Kasey for your long comment.  But don&#039;t worry about me, I am aware of being the eternally rejected writer and since I am also aware that my days on this earth are not as many as they once were, unless I do something about it I shall die unpublished. I don&#039;t fancy that idea much so I&#039;ve discovered that WestBow is my only and best solution for me to die a happy respected, reputably published author.  Of course, you, and your writers&#039; associations are quite in your prerogative to spoil that for me, but I don&#039;t think that will bring you any happiness at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Kasey for your long comment.  But don&#8217;t worry about me, I am aware of being the eternally rejected writer and since I am also aware that my days on this earth are not as many as they once were, unless I do something about it I shall die unpublished. I don&#8217;t fancy that idea much so I&#8217;ve discovered that WestBow is my only and best solution for me to die a happy respected, reputably published author.  Of course, you, and your writers&#8217; associations are quite in your prerogative to spoil that for me, but I don&#8217;t think that will bring you any happiness at all.</p>
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		<title>By: kasey michaels</title>
		<link>http://www.ninc.com/blog/index.php/archives/ninc-responds-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-3453</link>
		<dc:creator>kasey michaels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ninc.com/blog/?p=4213#comment-3453</guid>
		<description>I loved The Da Vinci Code.  Many people did.  Many people didn&#039;t.  Different strokes for different folks, and all of that.

However, this comments section is reserved for discussing the blog post: NINC Responds To Disturbing Publishing Development.

Okay, so some might squint and stretch that to discussing The Da Vinci Code (not me, as I said, I&#039;m a fan...), but it&#039;s really too much of a stretch, don&#039;t you think?  Much better to stay on point, on topic.

Eva, you&#039;re a sweet lady.  I&#039;ve read all of your comment posts here and I, and the other posters who have tried to help you, sincerely wish you the best of luck with your writing projects, no matter how you proceed with them.  After all, at the end of the day, the decision is yours, and yours alone.  If you think you&#039;re right, what do you care about what others might think?  You don&#039;t have to convince anyone else if you&#039;ve already convinced yourself.

I will give you a piece of unsolicited advice (face it, you knew that was coming...), born of my thirty years in this business and my over 110 published novels (whether you like them or not doesn&#039;t matter -- I like them, and my editors like them, and enough of the reading public likes them to keep me busy at my keyboard).  

Anyway, that advice?  The first thing a writer has to do is develop a pretty healthy ego; otherwise, she&#039;s doomed before she starts.  

Because you will be rejected.  We&#039;re all rejected at some point. In thirty years, I&#039;ve seen lots of rejections, believe me (I once thought about papering my powder room walls with them...).  But we don&#039;t EVER begin thinking of ourselves as second class writers, lower tier writers, etc.  We rant, we rave, we hit that half gallon of fudge ripple ice cream in the freezer, we even shed a few tears ... and then we pick ourselves up and go back to work.

Writers write, Eva.  They don&#039;t moan, they don&#039;t groan (at least not for long, and never in an open forum! ).  They don&#039;t waste their time comparing themselves with authors and saying, &quot;But I&#039;m better -- this isn&#039;t fair!&quot;  They don&#039;t blame the editors or the agents or published authors, or a cruel, uncaring world.

No, writers go back to work. Knowing they have to write, because it&#039;s in their blood, it&#039;s in their hearts...and might even define who they are, at least to themselves.  They could no more stop writing than stop breathing, and still consider themselves alive.

So I -- we -- understand your passion.  We care enough to worry, to not want to see you, or anyone, fall prey to a fistful of dreams that cost a fistful of dollars.

But hey, there&#039;s always the exception that proves the rule, right?  Maybe your book will be that exception.  That&#039;s what vanity publishers want, need, you to believe.  And no matter what name they invent to describe themselves, if they&#039;re charging you to publish your book, they&#039;re vanity publishers...and you&#039;re not their author, Eva, you&#039;re their customer.  

If you choose to go with one of them, then at least you&#039;ve chosen that path fully aware that published authors everywhere are pretty much holding up warning signs that say, at the very least:  please proceed with extreme caution.

Best of luck to you, and Happy Thanksgiving!

Kasey Michaels
NINC President, 2009
kaseymichaels.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved The Da Vinci Code.  Many people did.  Many people didn&#8217;t.  Different strokes for different folks, and all of that.</p>
<p>However, this comments section is reserved for discussing the blog post: NINC Responds To Disturbing Publishing Development.</p>
<p>Okay, so some might squint and stretch that to discussing The Da Vinci Code (not me, as I said, I&#8217;m a fan&#8230;), but it&#8217;s really too much of a stretch, don&#8217;t you think?  Much better to stay on point, on topic.</p>
<p>Eva, you&#8217;re a sweet lady.  I&#8217;ve read all of your comment posts here and I, and the other posters who have tried to help you, sincerely wish you the best of luck with your writing projects, no matter how you proceed with them.  After all, at the end of the day, the decision is yours, and yours alone.  If you think you&#8217;re right, what do you care about what others might think?  You don&#8217;t have to convince anyone else if you&#8217;ve already convinced yourself.</p>
<p>I will give you a piece of unsolicited advice (face it, you knew that was coming&#8230;), born of my thirty years in this business and my over 110 published novels (whether you like them or not doesn&#8217;t matter &#8212; I like them, and my editors like them, and enough of the reading public likes them to keep me busy at my keyboard).  </p>
<p>Anyway, that advice?  The first thing a writer has to do is develop a pretty healthy ego; otherwise, she&#8217;s doomed before she starts.  </p>
<p>Because you will be rejected.  We&#8217;re all rejected at some point. In thirty years, I&#8217;ve seen lots of rejections, believe me (I once thought about papering my powder room walls with them&#8230;).  But we don&#8217;t EVER begin thinking of ourselves as second class writers, lower tier writers, etc.  We rant, we rave, we hit that half gallon of fudge ripple ice cream in the freezer, we even shed a few tears &#8230; and then we pick ourselves up and go back to work.</p>
<p>Writers write, Eva.  They don&#8217;t moan, they don&#8217;t groan (at least not for long, and never in an open forum! ).  They don&#8217;t waste their time comparing themselves with authors and saying, &#8220;But I&#8217;m better &#8212; this isn&#8217;t fair!&#8221;  They don&#8217;t blame the editors or the agents or published authors, or a cruel, uncaring world.</p>
<p>No, writers go back to work. Knowing they have to write, because it&#8217;s in their blood, it&#8217;s in their hearts&#8230;and might even define who they are, at least to themselves.  They could no more stop writing than stop breathing, and still consider themselves alive.</p>
<p>So I &#8212; we &#8212; understand your passion.  We care enough to worry, to not want to see you, or anyone, fall prey to a fistful of dreams that cost a fistful of dollars.</p>
<p>But hey, there&#8217;s always the exception that proves the rule, right?  Maybe your book will be that exception.  That&#8217;s what vanity publishers want, need, you to believe.  And no matter what name they invent to describe themselves, if they&#8217;re charging you to publish your book, they&#8217;re vanity publishers&#8230;and you&#8217;re not their author, Eva, you&#8217;re their customer.  </p>
<p>If you choose to go with one of them, then at least you&#8217;ve chosen that path fully aware that published authors everywhere are pretty much holding up warning signs that say, at the very least:  please proceed with extreme caution.</p>
<p>Best of luck to you, and Happy Thanksgiving!</p>
<p>Kasey Michaels<br />
NINC President, 2009<br />
kaseymichaels.com</p>
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		<title>By: Eva Ulian</title>
		<link>http://www.ninc.com/blog/index.php/archives/ninc-responds-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-3452</link>
		<dc:creator>Eva Ulian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ninc.com/blog/?p=4213#comment-3452</guid>
		<description>I guess your psychic powers are not turned on at the moment- I don&#039;t like the Da Vinci Code not only because it is written in a way that most authors can do much better just by looking at books on how to write- but because it is making a mockery of my values in life. And believe me, there are many more millions of people in the world who think like me than those who read the Da Vinci Code.  Happy now- what else do you want to know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess your psychic powers are not turned on at the moment- I don&#8217;t like the Da Vinci Code not only because it is written in a way that most authors can do much better just by looking at books on how to write- but because it is making a mockery of my values in life. And believe me, there are many more millions of people in the world who think like me than those who read the Da Vinci Code.  Happy now- what else do you want to know?</p>
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		<title>By: Why Listen?</title>
		<link>http://www.ninc.com/blog/index.php/archives/ninc-responds-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-3451</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Listen?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ninc.com/blog/?p=4213#comment-3451</guid>
		<description>Right, your books are ART.  We get it now.  Duly noted.  The rest of the unwashed masses will continue to read books that entertain, written by authors who respect their readership--unlike you, who think you&#039;re better than the vast majority of readers--because &quot;such audiences&quot; are the ones that make books a part of the collective consciousness, which the DaVinci Code did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, your books are ART.  We get it now.  Duly noted.  The rest of the unwashed masses will continue to read books that entertain, written by authors who respect their readership&#8211;unlike you, who think you&#8217;re better than the vast majority of readers&#8211;because &#8220;such audiences&#8221; are the ones that make books a part of the collective consciousness, which the DaVinci Code did.</p>
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		<title>By: Eva Ulian</title>
		<link>http://www.ninc.com/blog/index.php/archives/ninc-responds-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-3450</link>
		<dc:creator>Eva Ulian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ninc.com/blog/?p=4213#comment-3450</guid>
		<description>My books are not aimed at such audiences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My books are not aimed at such audiences.</p>
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		<title>By: Why Listen?</title>
		<link>http://www.ninc.com/blog/index.php/archives/ninc-responds-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-3449</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Listen?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ninc.com/blog/?p=4213#comment-3449</guid>
		<description>Ah, I get it now.  Quote the DaVinci Code as bad writing...we know what camp you&#039;re in now, Eva.  You go ahead and vanity publish.  This sort of venture has been dreamed up just for you, as I said before.

I&#039;m not going to argue over the merits of the writing in the DaVinci Code because clearly, the MILLIONS of people who read this book and ADORED it are wrong.  You can rest assured that when you vanity publish, none of those MILLIONS of people will read your book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I get it now.  Quote the DaVinci Code as bad writing&#8230;we know what camp you&#8217;re in now, Eva.  You go ahead and vanity publish.  This sort of venture has been dreamed up just for you, as I said before.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going to argue over the merits of the writing in the DaVinci Code because clearly, the MILLIONS of people who read this book and ADORED it are wrong.  You can rest assured that when you vanity publish, none of those MILLIONS of people will read your book.</p>
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		<title>By: Eva Ulian</title>
		<link>http://www.ninc.com/blog/index.php/archives/ninc-responds-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-3448</link>
		<dc:creator>Eva Ulian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ninc.com/blog/?p=4213#comment-3448</guid>
		<description>I’ve admitted repeatedly that my work is considered as the inferior fodder of the writing industry but that’s no guarantee that what is published is good, excellent writing.
“Bad” writing can become extremely successful with the right pushing.  For example:

“Your grandfather gave you the key, but failed to give you the account number?” 

If I wrote anything near such a phrase, what would you say?  You’d say that such simpleton repetition is insulting your intelligence, would you not?  What about this: 

“Jacques Saunière is dead?” he demanded, his eyes filling with horror. “But... How?!”  

It’s so melo-dramatic it makes you want to laugh- but it’s not a joke- in fact it’s quite tragic that this is acclaimed as the crème de crème of English literature.  And I am not, by any means, the first to make such annotations on the book.  Oh yes, the book: all from the same page of  The Da Vinci Code.

What is also true is that some fantastic authors, authors that can really contribute to the literary heritage of  a nation are barred from access to publishers by passing them by, so basically the public is inundated with a lot of pulp that will sell because that has been decreed it will sell at the expense of worthwhile literature that can satisfy the heart of man more than the cheap thrills that are made available.

Guess, you prefer publishers pack their bags and fold up rather than let them make money from authors who openly acclaim to be the inferior fodder of the writing industry and want to offer a better choice to readers. Yes, very supportive of you all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ve admitted repeatedly that my work is considered as the inferior fodder of the writing industry but that’s no guarantee that what is published is good, excellent writing.<br />
“Bad” writing can become extremely successful with the right pushing.  For example:</p>
<p>“Your grandfather gave you the key, but failed to give you the account number?” </p>
<p>If I wrote anything near such a phrase, what would you say?  You’d say that such simpleton repetition is insulting your intelligence, would you not?  What about this: </p>
<p>“Jacques Saunière is dead?” he demanded, his eyes filling with horror. “But&#8230; How?!”  </p>
<p>It’s so melo-dramatic it makes you want to laugh- but it’s not a joke- in fact it’s quite tragic that this is acclaimed as the crème de crème of English literature.  And I am not, by any means, the first to make such annotations on the book.  Oh yes, the book: all from the same page of  The Da Vinci Code.</p>
<p>What is also true is that some fantastic authors, authors that can really contribute to the literary heritage of  a nation are barred from access to publishers by passing them by, so basically the public is inundated with a lot of pulp that will sell because that has been decreed it will sell at the expense of worthwhile literature that can satisfy the heart of man more than the cheap thrills that are made available.</p>
<p>Guess, you prefer publishers pack their bags and fold up rather than let them make money from authors who openly acclaim to be the inferior fodder of the writing industry and want to offer a better choice to readers. Yes, very supportive of you all.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura Resnick</title>
		<link>http://www.ninc.com/blog/index.php/archives/ninc-responds-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-3447</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Resnick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ninc.com/blog/?p=4213#comment-3447</guid>
		<description>Eva,

I don&#039;t have an agent, either. I didn&#039;t have one for the first five years of my career, I haven&#039;t had one for the past 3 years of my career. During those combined 8 years, I made many sales. During the years that I had an agent, I also actually made a number of my sales myself.

However, working without an agent does require a good business head and the ability to research publishers. Without wishing to sound rude, someone who views a vanity scam as a publishing &quot;opportunity&quot; probabyl does need a good agent to advise her on business matters--but please be wary, as there are a lot of bad agents out there who are simply incompetent, as well as quite a few scam agents who will deliberately steer you into vanity presses in which they have a financial interest. See Writer Beware and Preditors-and-Editors for more information. Only a legitimate agent who knows his job will be able to assist you, and to find such a person, you WILL have to educate yourself about the business and do sufficient research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eva,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have an agent, either. I didn&#8217;t have one for the first five years of my career, I haven&#8217;t had one for the past 3 years of my career. During those combined 8 years, I made many sales. During the years that I had an agent, I also actually made a number of my sales myself.</p>
<p>However, working without an agent does require a good business head and the ability to research publishers. Without wishing to sound rude, someone who views a vanity scam as a publishing &#8220;opportunity&#8221; probabyl does need a good agent to advise her on business matters&#8211;but please be wary, as there are a lot of bad agents out there who are simply incompetent, as well as quite a few scam agents who will deliberately steer you into vanity presses in which they have a financial interest. See Writer Beware and Preditors-and-Editors for more information. Only a legitimate agent who knows his job will be able to assist you, and to find such a person, you WILL have to educate yourself about the business and do sufficient research.</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Moon</title>
		<link>http://www.ninc.com/blog/index.php/archives/ninc-responds-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-3444</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Moon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ninc.com/blog/?p=4213#comment-3444</guid>
		<description>Eva, most of us start out with a dream of becoming published writers.   We have the same strong desire to succeed as those who fall for vanity press scams.  But those of us who do succeed accept the reality that what we write may not be good enough...yet.  Rejection sends us back to the drawing board.

I watched a close friend through this process in the years after his wife died.  He wrote a book that I thought was pretty darn good for a novice.   Sent it to an agent.  Agent hated it.  Wrote another book.  Sent it to the agent...agent hated it a little less.  This went on for book after book.   My friend didn&#039;t like the criticisms he got--he wanted (as much as anyone else) to be told he&#039;d written a wonderful book the first time and every time since.  But he didn&#039;t cling to the fantasy that he was a genius not being appreciated.  He went back to work--revising one, writing another.  

He just made his first fiction sale.   His publisher is enthusiastic about his work and wants more.  The check cleared the bank.  And it happened because instead of lashing out at those who criticized him, he chose to learn from what they said.

Most successful writers have been rejected multiple times.  We all continue to get criticism from editors and agents.   The ability to take that criticism and think it over and then get better--fix the problems, avoid making the same ones again--defines the professional writer.  

Personally, I hate the need for that.  I want to be drenched in nothing but praise.   Millions of people bowing down to my genius would suit me just fine.  Every reader who ever picked up my books swooning in ecstasy: yes, right, absolutely.  

But the reality is otherwise.  My first stories didn&#039;t sell because they were lousy, not because someone was trying to keep new talent out of the system.   The book rejections were the result of editors&#039; belief that such books would not sell.   When my agent or editor tells me that a passage stinks...it stinks.   

If you asked someone who drove regularly from Chicago to Denver what the best route was...would you then listen to someone who told you to go to Miami first?   Would you call the person who had actually gone where you want to go--many times--a liar?   Or even mistaken?  If you really want to get your books into the stores--if you really want to have a chance to be a bestseller--then listen to the people who have done it.  Not the guy with a chain of truckstops on the road to Miami, who&#039;s expecting to sell you gas, food, and candy all the way down to someplace you didn&#039;t want to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eva, most of us start out with a dream of becoming published writers.   We have the same strong desire to succeed as those who fall for vanity press scams.  But those of us who do succeed accept the reality that what we write may not be good enough&#8230;yet.  Rejection sends us back to the drawing board.</p>
<p>I watched a close friend through this process in the years after his wife died.  He wrote a book that I thought was pretty darn good for a novice.   Sent it to an agent.  Agent hated it.  Wrote another book.  Sent it to the agent&#8230;agent hated it a little less.  This went on for book after book.   My friend didn&#8217;t like the criticisms he got&#8211;he wanted (as much as anyone else) to be told he&#8217;d written a wonderful book the first time and every time since.  But he didn&#8217;t cling to the fantasy that he was a genius not being appreciated.  He went back to work&#8211;revising one, writing another.  </p>
<p>He just made his first fiction sale.   His publisher is enthusiastic about his work and wants more.  The check cleared the bank.  And it happened because instead of lashing out at those who criticized him, he chose to learn from what they said.</p>
<p>Most successful writers have been rejected multiple times.  We all continue to get criticism from editors and agents.   The ability to take that criticism and think it over and then get better&#8211;fix the problems, avoid making the same ones again&#8211;defines the professional writer.  </p>
<p>Personally, I hate the need for that.  I want to be drenched in nothing but praise.   Millions of people bowing down to my genius would suit me just fine.  Every reader who ever picked up my books swooning in ecstasy: yes, right, absolutely.  </p>
<p>But the reality is otherwise.  My first stories didn&#8217;t sell because they were lousy, not because someone was trying to keep new talent out of the system.   The book rejections were the result of editors&#8217; belief that such books would not sell.   When my agent or editor tells me that a passage stinks&#8230;it stinks.   </p>
<p>If you asked someone who drove regularly from Chicago to Denver what the best route was&#8230;would you then listen to someone who told you to go to Miami first?   Would you call the person who had actually gone where you want to go&#8211;many times&#8211;a liar?   Or even mistaken?  If you really want to get your books into the stores&#8211;if you really want to have a chance to be a bestseller&#8211;then listen to the people who have done it.  Not the guy with a chain of truckstops on the road to Miami, who&#8217;s expecting to sell you gas, food, and candy all the way down to someplace you didn&#8217;t want to be.</p>
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		<title>By: WhyListen?</title>
		<link>http://www.ninc.com/blog/index.php/archives/ninc-responds-publishing/comment-page-1#comment-3442</link>
		<dc:creator>WhyListen?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ninc.com/blog/?p=4213#comment-3442</guid>
		<description>Eva, the fact is that you&#039;re exactly the reason that these vanity presses stay in business.  And it is VANITY.  You&#039;re admittedly desperate to be published.  Have you considered the fact that perhaps agents don&#039;t want your work because it&#039;s not good enough?  Because it doesn&#039;t have commercial appeal?  Have you tried small presses?  Because there are many, MANY small presses that accept quality work without an agent--work that might not be commercial.  But if you are writing commercial fiction (no matter the genre) and you can&#039;t find an agent or a publisher in the traditional sense, then the problem might not be with publishing.

I can&#039;t understand how professional writers in five major writing organizations (RWA, MWA, SFWA, NINC and HWA) can all agree on something--these are people who are actually making money doing what you want to do--and you call them all liars.

Are they telling you what you want to hear?  No.  Because that would hurt.  But they are telling you the truth, even if you refuse to listen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eva, the fact is that you&#8217;re exactly the reason that these vanity presses stay in business.  And it is VANITY.  You&#8217;re admittedly desperate to be published.  Have you considered the fact that perhaps agents don&#8217;t want your work because it&#8217;s not good enough?  Because it doesn&#8217;t have commercial appeal?  Have you tried small presses?  Because there are many, MANY small presses that accept quality work without an agent&#8211;work that might not be commercial.  But if you are writing commercial fiction (no matter the genre) and you can&#8217;t find an agent or a publisher in the traditional sense, then the problem might not be with publishing.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t understand how professional writers in five major writing organizations (RWA, MWA, SFWA, NINC and HWA) can all agree on something&#8211;these are people who are actually making money doing what you want to do&#8211;and you call them all liars.</p>
<p>Are they telling you what you want to hear?  No.  Because that would hurt.  But they are telling you the truth, even if you refuse to listen.</p>
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